Guy’s 4 objections to hell

50 Questions

The idea of hell is detestable to an unbeliever. He thinks it is very unfair that the Bible teaches the horror of an eternal lake of burning sulphur. Yet hell was specifically designed for the devil and his demons, ‘…the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his Atheists want Bible in hell
angels.’
God doesn’t want people to go there. That is why He let Jesus suffer the punishment for our sin so that we can escape it and go free. In the following 4 points we discuss Guy’s objections:

 

  1. Without Jesus as your God, it’s off to the lake of fire for you, no exceptions.2 Guy wants to give the impression that God is a tyrant who sends people to hell who had no chance to believe in Him, because they didn’t have Bibles. Romans 2:14-15 teaches that people without Bibles will be judged according to what they knew and acted upon. God is all knowing and will judge fairly. Sceptics are often worried about others, instead of looking at themselves.
  2.  The ideas that God/Jesus forgives and that Christianity is a religion of love are very important to Christians. However, the concept of hell seems to contradict these claims. 3  No, the idea of hell supports God’s love. He went to a great deal of trouble to send His Son to die for the sins of the world. God will only judge when there is a safe way out, which is through Jesus. Salvation comes before condemnation.  Since many scorn salvation, they can’t complain about condemnation.
  3.  I just don’t think hell is real, nor do I believe that the supernatural claims of Christianity have been proved.4  Most countries do not want criminals on the street, but in jail. Why can’t God have a jail, called hell? God’s eternal Kingdom will have no ‘criminals’ like rebels, the disobedient, blasphemers, et cetera. They refused to accept Jesus’ gracious offer to wipe their ‘criminal’ slates clean, as He does for all who ask Him. Those who refuse have only themselves to blame. The atheists’ war against the Bible proves that the supernatural claims of the Bible are true. They are influenced by the devil who knows the claims are real.
  4.  Does the punishment fit the crime? 5  Why does God call the man who believes there is no God a ‘fool.’  Because he refuses the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, which is free. No wonder such a person is called a fool.  He wants to pay the wages of his sin, namely death (eternal hell) himself, instead of letting Jesus do it.  God went to great trouble to plan this global rescue operation through His Son, and those who reject it, know the consequences beforehand. Yet they wilfully choose to cruise down a river with a lethal waterfall after they were warned. That is deliberately looking for trouble. The punishment does fit the crime.

 

As the Bible is about real life, and since God plans a Kingdom of peace, it makes sense that all the rebels, the disobedient and those who refuse to swear allegiance to the King, will be confined in God’s jail. As they are a ‘security risk’ they will be kept in jail, as in most countries. God’s Kingdom is eternal, so jail is eternal.

 

References

  1. Matthew 25:41
  2. Kindle location 3747 of 5739
  3. Kindle location 3802 of 5739
  4. Kindle location 3812 of 5739
  5. Kindle location 3823 of 5739

 

 

 

 

Author: Gerard and Alida

As you can see in the photo, there are two of us. We live and work together 24/7, studying and enjoying our grandchildren. Our passion is to know and understand what will happen after death. Is there a way to provide for and invest in that?

11 thoughts on “Guy’s 4 objections to hell”

  1. On point #2 you don’t actually address the core issue, which is how a loving God could torment men forever and still be loving towards them. You simply focus on the atonement and man’s rejection of it (i.e. explaining the cause yet not justifying the result).We are called to love our enemies, but God will supposedly roast them forever if they don’t worship Him. How egotestical and insecure could a deity be? I don’t believe God is that way if He exists. And the Bible doesn’t teach that either (the Scriptural argument for annihilationism is 10 times stronger than the traditionalist view).

    On point #4 there is much that is presumptive. First of all you presume that all men know what they are getting into. However I have never met a single person who seriously believed in hell and didn’t trust in a religion to save them from it. I doubt your experience has been any different. People who aren’t Christians generally don’t believe because of lack of evidence, not out of blatant rejection of a undisputed truth.

    Particularly incorrect is the redefinition of death to mean an “eternal hell”. First of all, death is not a location, but a state. So what state is eternal hell? It is a “eternal life of misery”. In this case everyone receives eternal life contrary to the Bible! Corpses don’t feel pain. If I were to say “Tommy is dead” no one would think I meant “Tommy is alive and miserable”, so why do we read the Bible this way?

    The Greek word for death in Romans 6:23 is thanatos (θάνατος). This word is used of Jesus’ death just one chapter prior in Romans 5:10. In order to support your definition Jesus experienced a “eternal life of misery”. Yet we know that it would be considered heretical to believe that God left Jesus in hell to burn for our sins eternally. There is absolutely no evidence that θάνατος in Romans 6:23 is different than it is in Romans 5:10. Neither is there any clear evidence that θάνατος ever gained this connotation in that time period. This manipulation of texts is all too common and an imposition on those who don’t know better.

    Like

    1. Zach, thank you for your comment once again.
      On point #2: In this life, God loves all people and wants them to come to repentance. 1 Timothy 2:4 says, ’…this is good [prayer] and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.’ God is loving and gracious, but there will come a time when His wrath against the terrible damage sin does to others, supersedes His love. Revelation 21:8 says, ‘But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death’. I fail to see why God, who pleaded with men to repent and turn to Him for eternal life, could spend more time on them in their separation from Him. He has His own people whom He loves, and who loves Him.

      On point #4: If people don’t believe because of a lack of evidence, the following refutes it, ‘The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without any excuse’ (Romans 1:18-20). There are no valid excuses as to why people could have no evidence. Not only creation, but also Israel and its history is testimony to the supernatural God.

      Concerning your comments about death and the second death, the following:
      John 5:24 says, ‘I tell you the truth whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death [the same ‘death’ as Romans 5:10 and 6:23) to life.’ According to standard interpretation as you suggest, it would mean that the moment we believe the Gospel, we will be ‘resurrected’ form death onto life. It is obvious that death has more than one meaning:
      Natural, temporal or physical death (Matthew 10:21, 16:28).
      Spiritual death. ‘As spiritual life consists in constant communication with the divine Light and Spirit, who are life; so spiritual death is the separation from their blessed influence’ (John 5:24; 1 John 3:14).
      Eternal death (Romans 6:21,23). It is called the second death (Revelation 2:11) and it implies everlasting punishment (Revelation 21:8).
      A plague or pestilence (Exodus 5:3, 9:3).
      Logically it seems as if hell means eternal separation from God. Some people don’t like God’s face, and will do anything to be as far away from Him as possible.

      Reference
      S Zodhiates, Editor, The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible, King James Version, Baker Book House, 1984.

      Like

      1. I apologize if I came across too blunt on my first comment here ’cause I feel I probably did. I think it is noble to stand up for what you believe is true, even if it is not popular. But I’ll go ahead and address what you put.

        On point #4 I would disagree with Paul there. Biblically, yes you are correct. However in experience I don’t see this to be so clear. I am an agnostic and the complexity of the world proves nothing more than the world’s complexity. I think a deist stance is certainly an acceptable theory, although the premise for many is that “everything that is complex must have a designer”. Yet this is unproveable, and so the premise is flawed. Also, God would exist without being created by intelligent design, so who created God? This refutes the idea that it is simply a black and white choice based on evidence. And Israel and it’s history is looking more and more like mythology when placed against independent history. None of us have ever seen anything written in the Bible, so it is pure faith in the inspiration and transmission of ancient manuscripts that has been proven to be an imperfect process. I’d love to believe again, but I’d need hard evidence.

        With most words there is a metaphorical sense. That is not denied. My personal definition for death as used in places such as that is: “existence characterized by the fulfillment of the desires of the flesh; resulting in an inevitable death apart from God’s intervention.”.

        The invention of many different literal senses of the word death is arbitrary and unwarranted by the evidence. The phrases “physical death”, “spiritual death” and “eternal death” do not exist in the original manuscripts; nor are there various modifying clauses to warrant those concepts. The word is simply “death” and in Revelation the “second death”. Two literal deaths.

        I’m curious as to what form of death you believe is the wages of sin in Romans 6:23?

        Like

  2. Thanks again for your comment, Zach. We find you polite and intelligent.
    The death mentioned in Romans 6:23 has its origin in the command that God gave to Adam in Genesis 2:16-17, ‘…but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’ That was physical death, which is what happened to Adam, Eve and all people since then, with some exceptions (Enoch, Elijah and then Jesus who was resurrected).

    The other ‘death’ was that they were driven from the Garden of Eden (separation and alienation from God – what is called ‘spiritual’ death). That is why Genesis 3:15 promises a Redeemer by whom ‘we are reconciled by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in His sight…,’ Colossians 1:22. As a type of Christ, God clothed them with animal skins to indicate that forgiveness (reconciliation with Him) would be through the shedding of innocent blood.

    So Romans 6:23 repeats Genesis 2:16-17. We go our way of disobedience to God, because we are separated from God by default. The eventual result is physical death and the second death (eternal punishment). Our only hope to be saved from this inevitable destruction, is to accept that Jesus died in our place. Then we are vindicated from the law of sin and death.

    Like

    1. I get what you mean. So death in the sense you see it is total. Physical and spiritual. If I understand you right, death is the condition which leads to eternal punishment, but death itself is not eternal punishment (it cannot be that by this definition). Romans 6:23 then, as you put it is spiritual separation that leads to physical death and eternal punishment. That’s probably the best description I’ve heard used for the traditional view. Although I’m still unconvinced that it originally meant that.

      What direct evidence do you have that the Greek word thanatos (θάνατος) gained this connotation prior to the time Jesus and Paul used the word? In the Bible it is never directly linked to Hell or spiritual separation.

      If both parts of the unsaved are dead (physically and spiritually) at the judgment, what dies the second death?

      Like

  3. Hello Zach!
    Concerning annihilationism:
    Hell (second death) is the reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the physical and spiritual death penalty for us. If there was no hell, why was it necessary for Him to die in our place? Being ‘extinguished’ after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is.
    Annihilationism even leaves the person who wants to follow Jesus with perplexing questions. Isn’t it easier to leave the discipline of studying Scripture, being taught by the Holy Spirit what life will be like in the new coming Kingdom, and what God wants? Why not enjoy life and be annihilated? That makes a mockery of the Bible. Universalism is similar. Why Jesus if all go to heaven?

    Concerning hell, sheol, hades, and the lake of fire:
    Man’s physical body goes into the grave. His soul goes to Sheol (OT), Hades (NT). There was a division between believers and unbelievers.
    When Jesus died, He descended, and then took all the believers with Him to heaven, or Paradise.
    At the second coming of Christ, all the saints will be resurrected. Paradise will be emptied and have no function. At the same time Hades will be emptied, because all its dead are resurrected. Thus at the final judgement, not only death (since it is replaced by immortality), but also Hades are thrown in hell (it no longer has a ‘job’).

    Then what God planned over thousands of years will begin. He will be with His people on the renewed earth. Those who refused God’s love and Jesus’ willingness to pay the penalty of their sins (the wages of sin is death), will pay the penalty themselves.

    Liked by 1 person

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s